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Peter Fogwill
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« on: June 11, 2010, 12:25:26 PM » |
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At last here it is. I think some people from CIU were interested as well, could someone let them know please.  BTW the fuse is important, it only ever blows if you turn the power on when the pump is frozen, but without it the pump burns out. Peter |
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green and gleam
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 12:34:45 PM » |
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At last here it is. I think some people from CIU were interested as well, could someone let them know please.
you barred also cause your compotition lol |
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im a very very intelligent idiot  |
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Peter Fogwill
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 12:39:25 PM » |
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No surprisingly I am not, they have been OK with me, never even had a warning. I have never had any problems with them so far, well except when they took away my website link without even asking me to do it first. I wasn't very happy but soon got over it.
I just don't have time to go on there much lately, and would probably get bombarded with a lot of questions etc. If I am going to spend time answering questions, them I would much rather do it here.
peter
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« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 12:49:45 PM by Peter Fogwill Admin »
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stuart mci
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 06:03:08 PM » |
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thanks peter i will pop into maplins and thats me sorted, cheers
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what rain mrs
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Peter Fogwill
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2010, 06:17:53 PM » |
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Just a reminder the product code is N02AW
Peter
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ronnie B
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2010, 08:27:04 PM » |
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I have missed this topic from the start and have just got a few bits and pieces of information. So I get this wired up and it stops the pressure switch from wearing out, is that right? Does the switch still go on and off as normal then? Sorry to be a late numpty but the first two buses ran straight by me even though I had my hand out, had to wait on a third one.  |
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« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 08:29:25 PM by ronnie B »
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stuart mci
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2010, 09:03:16 PM » |
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not actually sure ronnie. but if peter says it works thats all i need to know  i will fit one over the weekend and let you know. |
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what rain mrs
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Peter Fogwill
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« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2010, 10:20:01 PM » |
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I have missed this topic from the start and have just got a few bits and pieces of information. So I get this wired up and it stops the pressure switch from wearing out, is that right? Does the switch still go on and off as normal then? Sorry to be a late numpty but the first two buses ran straight by me even though I had my hand out, had to wait on a third one. Yes Ronnie the switch will still go on and off, but it won't burn out. What happens normally is the switch is stopping and starting a 7 amp pump so I suppose 7 amps will be going through the switch, and it is the heat generated by the 7amps passing through the switch that burns them out prematurely. Now with the relay fitted , the relay is getting a signal from the pump switch each time it is turned on and off, but it is the relay itself that is stopping and starting the pump. Yes the relay will burn out eventully, but it is much more heavy duty than the pump switch, cheaper, and easier to change over. I will see if I can find my explanation I done for someone on CIU and paste it below. It probably explains it better. Peter |
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ronnie B
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« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 10:26:35 PM » |
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Thanks Peter. I read your post on CIU a few weeks ago and that is where I got my info from. Until yesterday I had forgotten all about it Stu......will be waiting on your findings over the weekend. |
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Peter Fogwill
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 10:36:38 PM » |
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OK Ronnie, for anyone else still not understanding what the relay does then the information below might help explain it...
Hi Mike, sorry but I am not an auto electrician, and don't know a great deal about electrics, perhaps someone who does could step in and explain? Until then I will have a go.
I know if you have something like a remote control for instance that is rated at say 3amp and you wanted it to turn a 7 amp pump on then you would use a relay in the circuit. The remote control would switch the relay, and the relay would switch the pump on.
The reason the remote would be rated at 3amps is because it can't handle a higher current than that flowing through it, hence the relay, the relay only needs a small current to open the feed between the battery and the appliance the battery is supplying, which is more than the remote can handle.
Now I would guess that with the relay in the circuit with the pump pressure switch and the pump, what is happening is the power from the pressure switch on the pump is opening and closing the direct feed from the battery to the pump motor without going through the pressure switch. So what is happening is the pressure builds up in the pump, and the pressure switch opens the direct feed in the relay to allow the power to pass direct from the battery to the pump motor, and because it is not the 7amps that is needed to start the pump flowing through the pressure switch it greatly prolongs the pressure switch life. The trouble with the pressure switch burning out and the fact that I said the relay takes the hit, I mean the relay is directing the power needed to run the pump straight from the battery, through the relay, and to the pump motor, and all that is happening in the relay itself is a small amp signal going from the pressure switch on the pump, to open the contacts in the relay.
The pressure switch is not burning out because it is opening and shutting all the time, it is more to do with the 7amp load that is flowing through it. Much the same is if you had a big chunky pressure switch on the pump instead of the little flimsy one supplied.
Peter
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pootwo
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« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 11:29:15 PM » |
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its on ciu |
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Peter Fogwill
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« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 11:43:10 PM » |
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its on ciu Yes but it was a few weeks ago I wrote that, and it will be on page 999 by now. Posts disappear to fast over there. I am surprised an auto electrician never stepped in with a better explanation. Peter |
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stuart mci
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2010, 11:47:48 PM » |
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peter pootwoo started a post today named diagram and someone else put a link up to here. but that will be deleted as soon as a mod reads it
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what rain mrs
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Peter Fogwill
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2010, 11:55:44 PM » |
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peter pootwoo started a post today named diagram and someone else put a link up to here. but that will be deleted as soon as a mod reads it
Yes I just seen it and realized what has happened. I thought someone would have just copied the image and posted it over there. Peter |
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stuart mci
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2010, 01:11:39 AM » |
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ive posted a link to the image and not the forum pete so it should be ok.
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what rain mrs
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green and gleam
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2010, 01:23:58 AM » |
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the 7 amp fuse is just peak breaking poin if ampage exceeds that point in a peek overload then the fuse with save the device from melting, the pump doesnt draw 7 namp from the battery bnut it could if under load pressure at one time thus its just there for safety |
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im a very very intelligent idiot |
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ronnie B
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2010, 09:24:25 PM » |
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not actually sure ronnie. but if peter says it works thats all i need to know i will fit one over the weekend and let you know. Fitted one yet Stu? |
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stuart mci
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2010, 09:29:55 PM » |
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nah mate spent the day making a mess with expanding foam. i will do it tomorrow maybe depending on hangover |
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what rain mrs
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sarnian01
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2010, 09:10:10 PM » |
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Hi Mike, sorry but I am not an auto electrician, and don't know a great deal about electrics, perhaps someone who does could step in and explain? Until then I will have a go. Peters explanation of why the relay is used is close. The problem is not the Amperage flowing through the closed switch contacts, as the switch is designed to carry that load. It is the opening and closeing of the contacts that does the damage. Every time the contacts open or close there is a spark across the contacts. The bigger the current (Amps), the bigger the spark, which causes pitting of the contact and heat. If the switch cycle time is in minutes this is fine (one cycle being from contacts closing to opening again), but if it is frequent the heat builds and the contacts can get badly burned and pitted to the point where they fail. The higher the frequency, the quicker the switch will fail. By using a relay, instead of switching a large current up to 7 Amps, the switch is only switching a very small current of a few tenths of an amp to activate the relay. The relay contacts which are a lot heavier duty then switch the load. |
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A la perchoine, Andy
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pootwo
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2010, 07:34:31 PM » |
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iv got the relay just nead to fit it ,the resun im fiting one is when i replaced the swich one of the scuws sriped the plagy so i had to come home and drill the hole a we bit biger and cut self taper to ceret lenth ,so now i hope to never take it of agane
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Peter Fogwill
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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2010, 10:45:43 PM » |
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Hi Mike, sorry but I am not an auto electrician, and don't know a great deal about electrics, perhaps someone who does could step in and explain? Until then I will have a go. Peters explanation of why the relay is used is close. The problem is not the Amperage flowing through the closed switch contacts, as the switch is designed to carry that load. It is the opening and closeing of the contacts that does the damage. Every time the contacts open or close there is a spark across the contacts. The bigger the current (Amps), the bigger the spark, which causes pitting of the contact and heat. If the switch cycle time is in minutes this is fine (one cycle being from contacts closing to opening again), but if it is frequent the heat builds and the contacts can get badly burned and pitted to the point where they fail. The higher the frequency, the quicker the switch will fail. By using a relay, instead of switching a large current up to 7 Amps, the switch is only switching a very small current of a few tenths of an amp to activate the relay. The relay contacts which are a lot heavier duty then switch the load. That is exactly what I said wasn't it?, if not that is what I tried to say. Peter |
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dave_mooney
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2010, 02:31:59 PM » |
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BTW the fuse is important, it only ever blows if you turn the power on when the pump is frozen Is this the same with all relay systems? |
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DCS
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« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2010, 05:11:38 PM » |
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Would be nice to see a plumbing diagram for the L5.
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dave_mooney
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« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2010, 09:40:30 PM » |
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BTW the fuse is important, it only ever blows if you turn the power on when the pump is frozen
Is this the same with all relay systems?
Anyone - or peter?
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sarnian01
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2010, 12:00:58 AM » |
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There should be a fuse in all electrical circuits, to protect the components and wiring whether there is a relay or not.
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A la perchoine, Andy
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Window Cleaning Equipment Forum
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